The Benn Diaries: 1940-1990 Page 28

  There was another story about Khrushchev coming to Rumania. Sitting down in the Council of Ministers’ Room, the first thing he raised with the Rumanian Communist Party was, ‘Why do you kill your pigs at only twenty kilograms’ weight?’ The Rumanians said, ‘But we don’t, except the little ones which we eat as suckling pigs.’ Khrushchev said, ‘But you kill them at fifty kilograms instead of 150 kilograms. What do you Rumanians think you are doing?’ It was just this degree of authoritarianism that annoyed them.

  Khrushchev asked them, ‘Why do you Rumanians plant your maize in lines, instead of squares, which give you much better production?’ Indeed, he referred to this at a major mass public meeting and the Rumanians very modestly did experiments in planting and found that you got better productivity from the rows. This just indicated Khrushchev’s belief that he should be running Rumanian agriculture in the same way as he was trying to run it in the Ukraine and everywhere else.

  This led them to ask me, ‘Can an elephant get a hernia? Yes, if he’s trying to lift the productivity of Soviet agriculture.’

  They were also very funny about Mao. In China, they said, every television programme begins: ‘Good evening, Comrade Mao. This is our television and we welcome you,’ and ends: ‘Goodnight, Comrade Mao.’ Somebody asked, ‘Why is that?’ And the Chinese said, ‘Ah well, you see, Chairman Mao is the only one who has a television set.’

  They couldn’t explain the Cultural Revolution and I was surprised they didn’t have an analysis of it, because it is such an important development. I should think that, as Marxists, they would have, but if they did, they didn’t want to tell us.

  When de Gaulle came to Rumania, he went to visit a factory and asked one of the workers, ‘How much do you earn?’ The worker replied, ‘I earn eighty lei a day.’ De Gaulle said, ‘How much does that buy?’ So the worker replied, ‘It buys you a cow.’ So de Gaulle pulled out eighty lei, gave it to the man and said, ‘Go and buy me a cow.’ The man was absolutely paralysed and didn’t know what to do, so he consulted the officials who said, ‘You got yourself into this, you had better get out of it.’ So he came back and said, ‘Mr President, a cow would not be easy for you to take back on your aeroplane. Give me another twenty lei and I’ll bring you a hen.’

  I told a few jokes. They had a great sense of humour and it was altogether a superb evening. Afterwards, Birladeanu and I walked along the lakeside, over a little bridge and into a rose garden. It was a beautiful evening and everything was quiet except for the sound of orchestras from the different restaurants around the lake. I hadn’t realised what a beautiful city Bucharest is.

  Friday 7 June

  Went to the Archaeological Museum, which was fascinating. We looked at the Roman port, where we saw old anchors and equipment just exactly as the Romans had left them. Visited the Mayor in his room, and had a short swim in the Black Sea.

  Flew back to Bucharest and in the plane Dragos said he thought there would be two political parties in Rumania. He greatly admired the English. He was the son of a peasant and thought that collectivisation had gone too fast.

  I went to the party offices for my meeting with Nicolae Ceausescu, President and General Secretary of the Party, and Maurer, the Prime Minister, and Birladeanu. The Ambassador accompanied me. I thought it would be a twenty-minute courtesy call but I was there for two and a quarter hours. Ceausescu is about forty-eight, grey-haired, modest mannered, very penetrating in his ability, and I liked him. Maurer is a big old-fashioned Labour stalwart, rather like a well-scrubbed railway guard who had become a Minister in Attlee’s government, or even Ramsay MacDonald’s in 1929–31, and Birladeanu, chain-smoking. The Ambassador was on my side of the table.

  Ceausescu greeted me, and told me he had had a talk with Jennie Lee, which he had enjoyed. Then he said he wanted concrete results, and raised the whole question of computers and the need for a third generation. I explained the whole problem all over again, that this was of fundamental interest in the United Kingdom, that Rumanian independence and ours were not so very different, that we did not intend to be let down or scooped by others. I said we were frank, we told him the truth, that the French hadn’t anything to offer that touched us. I hoped he hadn’t been persuaded by the French that COCOM was some Anglo-Saxon arrangement that didn’t apply to deals with France.

  He said, ‘Well, frankly the French do promise integrated circuits and the dates and deliveries are laid down.’

  So I answered, ‘Well, anything they can offer we can offer too, and I can offer it now subject to the same conditions.’

  We got a bit further into this and Ceausescu told me that de Gaulle had said that embargoes were made to be broken. Ceausescu indicated that the French believed that the embargo was simply to preserve American economic interests until the Americans themselves could trade with Eastern Europe. I think the French are just about right.

  We had a philosophical discussion which took up most of the time, about two roads to socialism. I cross-examined him about central planning. I said that when you do move towards a market-oriented economy, even under socialism, you are in effect leaving the decision about production to be made by those who are producing for the market and, therefore, it wasn’t possible to have as much central planning as you thought. He wasn’t able to answer this but he thought that central planning would still have a key role – and of course in some sectors it would, for example in the decision to buy and introduce computers.

  We got on to the possibility of a dialogue between the Labour and Communist Parties. I said that during the Cold War, we hadn’t had the opportunities for talks like this and I suggested that he might apply for the general secretaryship of the Labour Party, at which he laughed. They were saying that we had more or less sold out to private ownership, but the Ambassador chipped in and said that the Industrial Expansion Bill was an opportunity by which the Government could take shares in private ownership as a condition of making money available. I was a little surprised that he had realised the political and economic significance of what we were doing.

  I raised the possibility that decision-making would break down in advanced societies, and talked about the way in which the institutions needed to be rebuilt to reflect modern power. I asked about the possible redundancy of the state, and when the ‘withering-away of the state’ might come.

  Ceausescu contributed vigorously. He was strongly in favour of the acceptance of free will, he thought the withering-away of the state would be very welcome though he didn’t quite see the withering-away of the Party. I discussed with him the possibility of us all becoming redundant. Finally, at 4.20 I left.

  To the Ambassador’s party, the British guests arriving early, at 6 o’clock, so that we could have a little ceremony of holding our glasses while the Ambassador toasted the Queen. The chap on the balcony played the National Anthem from an old gramophone record, and we all stood there. It was a most ludicrous, public-school, boy-scout event.

  I talked to an enormous number of people. The staff of the Embassy said it had been very exciting for them having us there and we’d inspired them, and so on. But the real point about the evening was that Verdet, Radulescu, Birladeanu, and the Minister of Machine Building, the Minister of Justice, and the Minister of Mines – six Ministers – actually came to the party. It was the first time they had ever been to the Embassy and we sat at a special table and just told jokes about the Russians, the Americans and ourselves.

  Radulescu said that mining mechanisation meant you had a lot of machinery and no coal. Birladeanu said the Ukranians were very lazy and he recalled a time when there had been a German bombing raid in the Ukraine. A horse had fallen into a pit and when the smoke cleared there was one Ukranian trying to help the horse out, and fifteen others advising. Radulescu said he had asked Castro about his beard and Castro said he was going to keep his beard until American imperialism ended.

  Saturday 8 June

  Got up at an ungodly hour. Left the hotel and met Birladeanu and Moldovan, w
ho had come to see us off at the airport. Talked a bit about Stalin and they stressed again that he was very intelligent and decisive and had advised Rumania to slow down its collectivisation programme on the grounds that the Russians had no alternative as the Soviet Union was a pioneer; but that Rumania could do it in its own time in a more leisurely way.

  Well, that was about it. They all waved and we got in our plane and we talked all the way back to London.

  Wednesday 24 July

  At the House of Commons there was a debate on Tam Dalyell, who had released information given to him as a member of the Science and Technology Committee on the Porton Chemical Warfare Establishment. I went into the Lobby because I understood it was a three-line Whip. But I just couldn’t face voting with all those Tories against Tam so I saw the Chief Whip and said ‘I can’t,’ and he said, ‘Well, don’t bother,’ so I went into the lavatory and I didn’t vote.

  Wednesday 21 August – Stansgate

  A day that will not be forgotten. It was Stephen’s birthday. That was the first thought in our minds when we woke up and then we heard the news that the Russians and the Warsaw Pact countries had invaded Czechoslovakia. My spirits sank, because, although we had half expected this might happen in the summer we thought it had all been patched up: this really takes you right back to Hungary in 1956.

  The rest of the day was devoted to Stephen’s birthday and, it being his seventeenth, he was able to drive on the highways. We went to Maldon together in the car, did some hill starts and then came back and had a lovely birthday party.

  Cabinet has been called tomorrow on the Czechoslovakian situation.

  Thursday 22 August

  Up at 5.30 and to London for the Cabinet.

  It was generally agreed that we didn’t want to interfere with trade with the Soviet Union because, even in the height of the Berlin Air Lift or the Hungarian situation, we had still traded with the Russians. But there was a very strong feeling that ministerial visits and exchanges would have to be checked.

  From my immediate point of view, of course, it has absolutely knocked every prospect of the computer deal completely out of the window because the Americans, who were bitterly opposed to my suggestion that we should supply computer technology to Russia and Rumania, will be adamant and Ministers opposed to it will have their hand greatly strengthened. So that is very disappointing. It also means my Russian visit is affected.

  Dick Crossman thought we could do more, eg propaganda from the BBC. He is still the psychological warrior in moment of crisis.

  Eddie Shackleton took a very strict defence view, saying that surely the important thing for stability in Europe was that each superpower should have its own sphere of influence and better that the Russians control Czechoslovakia than that there be any disturbance to the Western European status quo which might create a dangerous situation.

  I did ask whether the hot line was being used and whether we had really taken into account the tremendous damage the Russians had done to the world Communist movement, which is completely split on this, with the British, French and Italian Communist Parties, and the Chinese, denouncing it.

  But it was an unsatisfactory position. We agreed that Parliament would be recalled on Monday. There wasn’t much we could do but we felt we owed to the Czechs to show that we did care.

  Back to Stansgate.

  Friday 23 August

  Joan and Brian Simon arrived at Stansgate early this morning. Brian is Professor of Education at Leicester, the son of old Lord Simon of Wythenshawe, a former Liberal who became Labour. Brian is writing the book on comprehensive education with Caroline and is also a member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party. He had in fact just come back from a visit to Czechoslovakia in the course of the summer. They have many friends there and they were very upset indeed about what had happened.

  Saturday 24 August

  The Simons left at 6.30 this morning and they were due back tonight but phoned to say they couldn’t return and we quite understood. I think he got deeply involved in the various meetings that were called, and we noticed that the statement the Communist Party issued was highly critical, so he apparently had won the day.

  Sunday 25 August

  Slightly better news from Czechoslovakia. The disappearance of Dubcek, First Secretary of the Party, has caused a great deal of anxiety but there are now rumours that he is in Moscow with General Svoboda, the President, and maybe something will emerge from it.

  Thursday 29 August

  Stansgate. I think it has been the worst August for years.

  Stephen goes around with a camera and takes lots of sunset movies and Mother goes in every night and tells the ‘babies’ (Melissa and Joshua) Bible stories. Melissa is busy writing another ‘novel’. She is always doing that.

  Tuesday 17 September

  This morning I went by helicopter to the Farnborough Air Show. At lunch I sat next but one to General Lemnitzer, the Supreme Commander of SHAPE, [Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers in Europe]. He told me an interesting and amusing story, although he didn’t realise it. I had asked him about the Russian invasion of Czechoslovakia and he had said what an incredibly competent military operation it had been, how the Russians had maintained signal security and the Americans had known nothing about it in advance. Indeed, I learned later that Lemnitzer himself had been to Salonika the night before the invasion and clearly wouldn’t have gone if he had had any forewarning. But he did tell me how the Russians had captured Prague with an airborne division without any bloodshed. Apparently at about midnight, an Aeroflot airliner flying over Prague radioed through to the control tower saying it had a malfunctioning engine and asked if it could land.

  The Czechs helped them in and on the plane were seventy security police and air traffic controllers who knew the layout of Prague airport absolutely perfectly. They simply overpowered the Czech air traffic controllers and took control with hardly any casualties and allowed the airborne division to land by dawn.

  I was very impressed by this account and asked how he got hold of this story. He said Shirley Temple Black had told him. ‘She is a very capable woman,’ he said, which also gave away his political views as she is an extreme right-wing McCarthyite Republican. It fascinated and amused me that a five-star general, and the Pentagon and the White House, should have got the only information of any value about the invasion from a film star, a former child actress. But he didn’t see the joke.

  Monday 7 October

  In the evening I went to a North Kensington Labour Party meeting, the first one held there, I think, since the ‘66 Election, and some Black Power people were there. They just laughed at the speaker before me. When I got up they began shouting. So I said, ‘Look, I don’t want to make a speech. I make about three a week and I would much rather listen to you.’ So they came forward and sat in the front, a Black Power man abused me and said I was a lord and the British working movement was bourgeois and so on, and it became interesting after that.

  Thursday 17 October

  My speech on broadcasting policy to be made tomorrow came back from Transport House and I saw to it that it went round to Fred Peart, as Leader of the House, John Silkin, the Chief Whip, John Stonehouse, the Postmaster General, Gerald Kaufman at Number 10, and Charles Hill, Chairman of the BBC, with a little note.

  Friday 18 October

  To Bristol and Hanham for the meeting on the role of broadcasting. The local Party had got together a few more people than would otherwise have been there. The place was chock-a-block with journalists and television people. I had been on the phone during the day and discovered that Number 10 didn’t want me to comment on it on any television or radio broadcasts afterwards. Harold is obviously rather angry.

  This speech by Tony Benn was the first of the now familiar critiques developed over the years questioning the power and accountability of the press, television and radio – the ‘media’. Part of the speech was directed specifically at the BBC:

  ‘The BBC has assum
ed part of the role of Parliament. It is the current talking shop, the national town meeting of the air, the village council. But access to it is strictly limited. Admission is by ticket only. It is just not enough. We have got to find a better way and give access to far more people than now are allowed to broadcast.

  ‘The trouble is that we have extended the overwhelming technical case for having a monolithic broadcasting organisation into a case for unifying programme output control under a single Board of Governors. Broadcasting is really too important to be left to the broadcasters, and somehow we must find some new way of using radio and television to allow us to talk to each other.

  ‘We’ve got to fight all over again the same battles that were fought centuries ago to get rid of the licence to print and the same battles to establish representative broadcasting in place of the benevolent paternalism by the constitutional monarchs who reside in the palatial Broadcasting House.

  ‘It is now a prime national task to find some way of doing this. It must be based on, and built around, the firm framework of public service control and operation, and not dismembered and handed over to the commercial forces which already control every other one of the mass media except the BBC. For in the BBC we have an instrument of responsible communication which is quite capable of being refashioned to meet our needs in the Seventies and Eighties as it did so brilliantly in the Twenties, Thirties, and Forties.’

  Monday 21 October

  There is a major row raging over my BBC speech. The Times led this morning with a heading saying that Gunter asked the Prime Minister to repudiate me so I am not out of the wood yet, but with all the other papers ‘up against’ me, I must expect a certain amount of trouble.

  By and large, I am getting a very friendly reception from the Party, although some Labour Members have tabled a motion of support for the independence of the BBC: but then I don’t disagree with that myself.